Tactics

Re:SU 27: Size!

Anonymous — Thu, 27 May 1999 06:31:00 GMT

*** Posted by Rapier ***
Hi Kim,

Wow! it really is a pretty big fighter. When you compare the data you have mentioned Kim it's easy to see that the F-16 is much smaller. I think the main reason for the size of the SUE's is it's strike capability it has massive internal fuel tanks to maintain itself in the air for longer periods than most fighter aircraft. It has also set numerous records and come out top in many of these records. I'm sorry to admit this Kim but the SUE's are better than the F-16 in many areas, but put the SUE's up against the F22's and the F22's will make mince-meat out of them without any trouble, even in close combat. Well done for giving us that data Kim it's always good to learn somthing new.

Regards

Rapier

[measurements of the two (SU/F-16):
Lenght: 70 feet vs. 48 feet!
Vingspan: 48 feet vs. 31 feet!
Short conclusion: The lenght of the F-16 is the same as the wingspan of the Flanker!!
]

SU 27: Size!

Anonymous — Thu, 27 May 1999 06:09:00 GMT

*** Posted by Kim Nielsen ***

To be honest I have never seen the SU's at their true potential though it would be nice so we could guage their performance better.
xxxxxxxx

I have been surfing quite a lot around to find pic.s illustrating the size of the flanker.
But for at start one can mention the measurements of the two (SU/F-16):
Lenght: 70 feet vs. 48 feet!
Vingspan: 48 feet vs. 31 feet!
Short conclusion: The lenght of the F-16 is the same as the wingspan of the Flanker!!

Morely I've found a couple of pic.s of SU's on the ground.
Since I'm not aware of any costum telling NOT to advise HTTP's in a forum like this, I'm serving them here:
The site is: WWW.aviation.ru ! And the pic's lays on the connected adresses:
/su/27/su-27_g.lpg.html
/su/27/su-27_l.lpg.html
/su/27/su-27ub.jpg.html
/su/27/su-27ubk.jpg.html
/su/30/su-30_b.jpg

Check them out! It is really HUGE!

Kim

SU's & the Mig-MAPO

Anonymous — Tue, 25 May 1999 08:30:00 GMT

*** Posted by Rapier ***
Hi RUN,

You like the SU's yes, they do look nice so they must fly nice to. It has very powerful engines which I suppose do compensate for it's size quite alot. You are being honest when you say the F-16 will struggle a bit with one of these but remember RUN how many evo's there have been of the SU. Imagine an F-16 with 3D thrust vectoring, a much more powerful engine than it's predecessors and radical new designs to the aircraft itself, it would be the SU's struggling then. Unfortunately these kinds of ideas will be for the future guys so we must wait in anticipation. Speaking about Russian Aircraft guys what do you also think about the Mig-MAPO. It is an aircraft being developed to counter the F22 Raptor. It is a shame that the manufacturers cannot complete the project for the time being and they are looking for serious investors before they go too far behind schedual.

Rapier

[Eventhough the Flanker is a big aircraft It's still a very capable one taking its thrust to weight ration into consideration. Are we talking medium-high altitudes the Flanker is definetely a better dogfighter than the f16 & I even think the f16 would have a hard time at low altitudes.

RUN]

Re:SU's? Is it just a load of hype?

Anonymous — Tue, 25 May 1999 07:55:00 GMT

*** Posted by RUN ***
Eventhough the Flanker is a big aircraft It's still a very capable one taking its thrust to weight ration into consideration. Are we talking medium-high altitudes the Flanker is definetely a better dogfighter than the f16 & I even think the f16 would have a hard time at low altitudes.

RUN
[Hi Kim,

I would have to agree with you there it probabably is difficult to manuver in close dogfights, it does look a bit cumbersome. With the technological steps taken in the advancement of air-air weapons do you think pilots rely too much on these weapons Kim? Do you think that the SU's were developed/designed to gain some kind of advantage in close dogfight because the Russians realised this factor? To be honest I have never seen the SU's at their true potential though it would be nice so we could guage their performance better. I think all combat pilots are well aware of other aircraft perfomances, they are taught what do about this sort of aircraft.

Regards

Rapier]

Re:SU's? Is it just a load of hype?

Anonymous — Mon, 24 May 1999 08:34:00 GMT

*** Posted by Kim Nielsen ***
[Hi Kim,

I would have to agree with you there it probabably is difficult to manuver in close dogfights, it does look a bit cumbersome. With the technological steps taken in the advancement of air-air weapons do you think pilots rely too much on these weapons Kim? Do you think that the SU's were developed/designed to gain some kind of advantage in close dogfight because the Russians realised this factor? To be honest I have never seen the SU's at their true potential though it would be nice so we could guage their performance better. I think all combat pilots are well aware of other aircraft perfomances, they are taught what do about this sort of aircraft.

Regards

Rapier

Quite sure!
But beside: The disadvantage in weight will also count in avoiding incoming AAM's.

Kim

Re:SU's? Is it just a load of hype?

Anonymous — Mon, 24 May 1999 08:02:00 GMT

*** Posted by Rapier ***
Hi Kim,

I would have to agree with you there it probabably is difficult to manuver in close dogfights, it does look a bit cumbersome. With the technological steps taken in the advancement of air-air weapons do you think pilots rely too much on these weapons Kim? Do you think that the SU's were developed/designed to gain some kind of advantage in close dogfight because the Russians realised this factor? To be honest I have never seen the SU's at their true potential though it would be nice so we could guage their performance better. I think all combat pilots are well aware of other aircraft perfomances, they are taught what do about this sort of aircraft.

Regards

Rapier

[I've enjoyed some SU and MIG performances from different airshows on tv.
Indeed, the performances is facinating, never the less the so called "Cobra", wich now are made as a 100% backflick by the canardmounted types (SU 30?), but the displays are done at rather low speed and my short knowledge in fysics tells that when the speed is doubled, the disadvantage of weight is four-doubled. So I still think that the size of the SU's must be a handicap in air battle.

Kim.]

Re:SU's

Anonymous — Mon, 24 May 1999 07:22:00 GMT

*** Posted by Kim Nielsen ***
[Hi Kim,

With regards to the SU, it is a big plane compared to some fighters but it looks very nice but I'm not sure about the manuverability of this Fighter. It certianly fly's very nice and is highly manuverable as I saw one performing at an airshow. Most of the people who had never seen the SU perform in real life were standing there Kim, with their mouths open throughout the entire SU display. I would say the F-16 is pretty close to perfomance give or take a few manuvers.

Rapier
xxxxxxxxxxx

I've enjoyed some SU and MIG performances from different airshows on tv.
Indeed, the performances is facinating, never the less the so called "Cobra", wich now are made as a 100% backflick by the canardmounted types (SU 30?), but the displays are done at rather low speed and my short knowledge in fysics tells that when the speed is doubled, the disadvantage of weight is four-doubled. So I still think that the size of the SU's must be a handicap in air battle.

Kim.

SU's

Anonymous — Sun, 23 May 1999 22:58:00 GMT

*** Posted by Rapier ***
Hi Kim,

With regards to the SU, it is a big plane compared to some fighters but it looks very nice but I'm not sure about the manuverability of this Fighter. It certianly fly's very nice and is highly manuverable as I saw one performing at an airshow. Most of the people who had never seen the SU perform in real life were standing there Kim, with their mouths open throughout the entire SU display. I would say the F-16 is pretty close to perfomance give or take a few manuvers.

Rapier
[To the debate:

I'm not knowing about the MIG's, but for the SU's its a fact that they are really HUGE (a tradition wich I recon the late versions to follow!). And with that in mind I would'nt concider a SU as a plane wich outmanouveres a F 16!?

Kim]

Re:MIG-29's update with western avionics?

Anonymous — Sun, 23 May 1999 09:48:00 GMT

*** Posted by Kim Nielsen ***
To the debate:

I'm not knowing about the MIG's, but for the SU's its a fact that they are really HUGE (a tradition wich I recon the late versions to follow!). And with that in mind I would'nt concider a SU as a plane wich outmanouveres a F 16!?

Kim

Re:To Tiger, Imporant!

Anonymous — Fri, 21 May 1999 07:55:00 GMT

*** Posted by TIGER ***
Hi friend
Just type http://www.fl-air.co.uk and register there then go to chat and you'll find me

Bye friend
TIGER

[To Tiger,

How's it going? Listen, so we dont clog up the database on this site you can also contact me by e-mail a (renzo.silvestri@net.ntl.com). If your on using mirc let me know by e-mail so we can talk using mirc. I found it fairly easy to use but you must give me the details of where and when you are on. I tried to find you yesterday night but could not find the Flanker club. Please contact me on what I have to do.

Thanks, Your friend Rapier.]

To Tiger, Imporant!

Anonymous — Thu, 20 May 1999 03:39:00 GMT

*** Posted by Rapier ***
To Tiger,

How's it going? Listen, so we dont clog up the database on this site you can also contact me by e-mail a (renzo.silvestri@net.ntl.com). If your on using mirc let me know by e-mail so we can talk using mirc. I found it fairly easy to use but you must give me the details of where and when you are on. I tried to find you yesterday night but could not find the Flanker club. Please contact me on what I have to do.

Thanks, Your friend Rapier.

Re: To Rapier from Tiger

Anonymous — Wed, 19 May 1999 18:54:00 GMT

*** Posted by run ***
Hey guys
Please cut out all the stuff from the messages that is not relevant anymore, so the db doesn't get too big
Run

Re: To Rapier from Tiger

Anonymous — Wed, 19 May 1999 10:13:00 GMT

*** Posted by Rapier ***
Tiger, I got mirc 5.41, is this ok to use or compatible with your version? I'll be on tommorow at about 9pm GMT (should be an hour, hour 1/2 after for you). You got to explain a bit on how to use mirc but I will try to figure out a bit myself tonight. Please tell me we can chat using mirc my friend. Speak to you tommorow!

Bye

Rapier
[
Hi friend
How are you?
Most of the time I play Su27 in flanker-o-club.
If you want to join use mirc and join me.
I'm waiting for you.
Your friend Tiger.

Tiger, where are you doode?

I know where Everest is now so I know where to find you but most of the time it's full and I cant get on to see if your there to chat. Let me know where you are and when your on ok. I found out some interesting info Tiger on future Russian aircraft that I wanted to discuss.

Regards

Rapier

Hi Rapier
Go to Y games , Backgammon, choose ladder and then EVEREST
I'm there
Waiting for you
bye
thanks
TIGER

Hi Rapier
Just go inside Backgammon and we will talk inside the game.
Other games are chess , checkers, cards, etc.
What do you say about playing online some sims?
To my friend Rapier
TIGER

Hi Tiger,

I went to Yahoo Games but I found it difficult to find you. I did go inside backgammon but there are a few rooms so I dont know where to start to find you. Can I search for you when I'm in Yahoo games somehow Tiger, because I did'nt even know Yahoo Games existed. I would love to play some sims online if that's ok, maybe we could both teach each other some tricks in Falcon 4. I like to play co-oprative missions as well though if that's ok. By the way Tiger I found some interesting little program at www.resounding.com. It's a little program that will allow us to talk to each other (like real comms in the F-16) when we are online, get it, it's free and it's all explained how to use it on their web site.

Thanks

Rapier]

Re: to Tiger

Anonymous — Wed, 19 May 1999 09:54:00 GMT

*** Posted by Rapier ***
[
Hi friend
How are you?
Most of the time I play Su27 in flanker-o-club.
If you want to join use mirc and join me.
I'm waiting for you.
Your friend Tiger.

Hi Tiger,

I'm ok thanks how you doing? Where is the flanker-o-club and what's mirc Tiger. Are you talking about the game flanker, because unfortunately I dont have it. Give me the exact details and I'll try to find you.

Rapier

Re: To Rapier from Tiger

Anonymous — Wed, 19 May 1999 09:30:00 GMT

*** Posted by TIGER ***

Hi friend
How are you?
Most of the time I play Su27 in flanker-o-club.
If you want to join use mirc and join me.
I'm waiting for you.
Your friend Tiger.

[

Tiger, where are you doode?

I know where Everest is now so I know where to find you but most of the time it's full and I cant get on to see if your there to chat. Let me know where you are and when your on ok. I found out some interesting info Tiger on future Russian aircraft that I wanted to discuss.

Regards

Rapier

Hi Rapier
Go to Y games , Backgammon, choose ladder and then EVEREST
I'm there
Waiting for you
bye
thanks
TIGER

Hi Rapier
Just go inside Backgammon and we will talk inside the game.
Other games are chess , checkers, cards, etc.
What do you say about playing online some sims?
To my friend Rapier
TIGER

Hi Tiger,

I went to Yahoo Games but I found it difficult to find you. I did go inside backgammon but there are a few rooms so I dont know where to start to find you. Can I search for you when I'm in Yahoo games somehow Tiger, because I did'nt even know Yahoo Games existed. I would love to play some sims online if that's ok, maybe we could both teach each other some tricks in Falcon 4. I like to play co-oprative missions as well though if that's ok. By the way Tiger I found some interesting little program at www.resounding.com. It's a little program that will allow us to talk to each other (like real comms in the F-16) when we are online, get it, it's free and it's all explained how to use it on their web site.

Thanks

Rapier]